Going Dutch

It is interesting that the term `Going Dutch' is used for Men and Women who are dating splitting the bill.

Why I say that, is that it is also a country known for its liberal prostitution policies.

Is the guy paying for the girl not just a mild form of prostitution?

Doesn't `Can I buy you a drink?' not translate to `I fancy you, can I chat you up?'

The more significant relationships in my life have been with Girls who were determined to pay their fair share. I think that goes hand in hand with being empowered.

Why should the guy pay?

An argument goes:

1) It shows respect. The girl spends ages getting ready and the guy just slaps something on. This is the argument that makes me connect the practice to prostitution. A form of payment for effort.

2) It is a tradition. A part of Chivalry.. Yes, and once this guy who reinforces gender roles during courtship achieves his aim... does this tradition go hand in hand with the man being the head of the house, the woman doing the cooking and cleaning, and the woman raising the kids?

I think this is a tradition that reinforces women as being objects there to be bought. Don't get me wrong, I am all for buying flowers, romance and all those good things... but that doesn't imply that one partner is being `paid for' since romance goes both ways.

So that is why I think the concept of empowering women by legalising prostitution and the concept of `Going Dutch' are consistent. In our society we get it wrong on both counts.

SSS - Stuart's Siren's Song

Stuart's post called a `Siren's Song' makes the valid point that the two best ways to approach trying to find the truth are

1) With Humility
2) With Skepticism about your established belief's truths

(2) doesn't mean you have to discard what you believe, but rather that you shouldn't cling to it to the point that you can not accept that you MIGHT be wrong.

A lot of the discussion we have been having is around the necessity of making things legal or illegal or whether social custom can deal with that, and only the absolute basics should be made illegal.

The thing is, we have to develop or accept a social code that works then. The argument is that you can have multiple social codes, and people can move freely between them.

If I accept that... and I probably do, you then have to figure out exactly what that social code should be.

So... the first thing is to work out

1) What those basic laws should be
2) Then develop your own social code

So, reframing the question we have been chatting about

Should Prostitution be legal? I don't think it fits into category 1. But my gut still makes me feel that the social code should still restrict it. Why does my gut tell me that?

A Dissenting Lady

Thanks Stuart for a link to Kerry Howley

Why is it that dissenting views or contrarian views so often lead to such silly responses? Do people really think this adds to their argument?

I’ve gotten a number of responses–one from someone at the Department of Homeland Security writing at 9am on a workday–saying, in effect: “If you don’t think prostitution is wrong, why are you not a prostitute?” This is too silly to merit reply, but…is this part of the fear? That if we legalize orgasm delivery, all women will become professional orgasm deliverers? Weird.

The response does seem bizarre, BUT... if it is totally destigmatized, Prostitution does become a very attractive carreer choice from a financial perspective. By all accounts, the girls working at Teazers (though not prostitution) make a hell of a lot of money.

Most jobs have barriers to entry. You can't just become a brick layer, it is actually a semi-skilled job. It pays reasonably well but you have to do some training to do it well. I can't think of many barriers to entry when it comes to sex work, and it becomes a relatively easy way to make a lot of money. Maybe prices would be driven down and it would become less attractive?

Something in my gut tells me that I would feel awful about my (hypothetical) 18 year old daughter going to Amsterdam to do her `gap year'. I would also feel awful about my son doing it, so I am not sure this is sexist.

BUT if there is NOTHING wrong with it... then why should I have a problem with it. Why should I encourage them to rather accept a lower paying job... like photostating or making coffee?

When you aren't a professional or haven't invested a lot in a carreer, presumably you do any job that pays the most given your low level of qualifications.

Something doesn't sit right for me.

Prostitution

Will Wilkinson has an interesting view on the subject...

I see no interesting intrinsic moral distinction between brick- and other forms of laying.

hmmmm....

As for me, I still feel it isn't something you should pay for. Why? It just feels that way.

I find the argument that high-level prostitution is acceptable more convincing. Acceptable, but not desirable. But for whatever reason, the idea of someone selling there labour laying bricks DOES seem different to selling their labour laying .icks.

It seems to me easier to say, I had a crap job laying bricks but things got better.

Even though I am not convinced that it is fine, I do think legalising it would help protect some of the women who get severely abused through the system.

For those who wander why I am talking about prostitution, the one thing distracting Americans from the Itchy (Obama) & Scratchy (Clinton) Show is that the governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has resigned over accusations of prostitution.