I got my British Passport a year before the Brexit Referendum. As someone who believes the C20th introduction of passport control was simply the physical role out of Global Apartheid, getting another passport has its ironies. Rather than burning Dompas like Madiba, I was collecting another one of the things I don't believe in. I came on a Migrants Program that gave me the opportunity because of my education, salary, language, age and work experiences. Kind of like a lottery for those who have previously won the lottery. Still, I was proud. Like a recovering Alcoholic, the description of Britain at my Citizenship Ceremony reminded me of the scene of Marcus Aurelius in the Gladiator. "There was a dream that was Rome. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish, it was so fragile." There were people from all over the world becoming citizens of a country that seemed to stand for so many things I believed in. Then 2016 happened and whispers became shouts.
Alex:
The way you pitch it is as if the primary reason behind Brexit was closing the borders. You and I have very similar beliefs. We both want this "Rome" with an open society that is inclusive. We both believe in Freedom of Trade, Movement, Services, and People. I didn't see the Referendum as anything other than a vote of no confidence in the INSTITUTION of the EU. Not Europe. Britain can't physically leave Europe. It is a part of it. All the crying and gnashing of teeth makes out as if all Brexiteers are racists and xenophobes. What about the European border in Ceuta? You can't paint the EU as this Liberal Democracy. I was voting against a Brussels run by technocrats.
Paul:
I didn't actually think the vote would go through. I have just been a Eurosceptic for years. I was undecided when I stepped into the voting booth, but I didn't feel it would be right to moan about the EU and then vote for them. I have business in Europe, but the European regulations make my life an absolute nightmare. I prefer hiring Brits. I really didn't think Brexit would actually happen, and even when it did, I didn't think there wouldn't be some sort of deal that allowed life to carry on pretty much as normal. It doesn't make sense for anybody for us to not be able to keep on doing what we do. Anyway, if things don't work out, I am okay. I'll just close up shop and go traveling.
Stewart:
I don't really follow all this nonsense. I have my own stuff to worry about. There is no point in worrying anyway. The people in London will do what they do and life will go on. It is not going to affect me. I voted for Brexit because the NHS is creaking at the seams with all the immigrants in the waiting rooms, and the jobs going to people who aren't even from here. Look after your own first I say. Don't have guests until you can afford to keep your house in order. You have to choose. If you want to have a Welfare State that looks after people, it is simple maths that you can't afford to look after everybody else too. Get rid of that stuff, and then sure... people who can afford to look after themselves are welcome to come.
Angela:
The reality is we are a small island. Environmentally, we can't afford to have more people here. 60 million plus is probably too many already. There aren't enough houses, which is why housing is unaffordable for the people who were born here. I am all for being accommodating to others, but there is the question of sustainability. The roads are clogged. The trains are clogged. The Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty are being filled with new housing that doesn't have the necessary schools and facilities. We may be a rich country in theory, but there are lots of problems we need to sort out. Leaving the EU is the only way we can do that.
Michelle:
There are fundamental political differences between the UK and the EU. You either believe in central decision-making technocrats, or you believe in devolved responsibility. In the UK, you hire and fire your political representatives directly. I can meet with my Member of Parliament, and it doesn't matter how much of a big wig they are, they have to serve their constituency. Nigel Farage certainly doesn't represent my views, and I resent being associated with him because I am against the EU. There is some irony that he has never ever won a seat in the UK, and his voice has been handed to him by Europe. Nigel is not the voice of Leave.
Trev:
The problem I have with these views is that they are mostly ideological. Much like my "I don't believe in Passports". The problem is Passports are a real thing. It doesn't matter if I believe in them or not. At the end of the day, I have to use them to move around. I am a deep pragmatist. What we do matters. Results matter. Yes, beliefs matter, but in the real world, we have to work with other people. The EU may have chosen Proportional Representation over "First Past The Post" seats. That has advantages and disadvantages. South Africa made the same choice. The inability of minority parties to get a voice in the UK is one of the disadvantages. Sustainability, Resource Allocation, and Regulatory Simplicity are all important... but we can't just vote for everyone to agree with us. The EU is much more likely to reform from within. It is better with the UK in it.
Andrew:
I have severe Brexit Fatigue. There are more important issues that which club different Rich countries belong or don't belong to. "Meanwhile in China" the world is carrying on while the Government of the UK grinds to a halt in this big talk shop. Whatever happens, won't change that much anyway. Like the Y2K "Crisis", the Global Financial "Crisis", the news always needs some Armageddon event to keep it entertained. Proper Crises like the World Wars, the resulting global flu pandemics, and the starvations in China and (now) Venezuela are proper things worth worrying about. Not how long it takes to fill in some bloody forms so you can sell your stuff or have to put another sticker on it. Britain "exiting" Europe is like a divorce where the spouses stay living in the same house. It's ridiculous, and we talk about it too much.
Alex:
I would probably change my vote now. I still believe I voted in good conscience the specific question that was asked. I wanted to leave the EU. I didn't want to end Freedom of Movement or any of the other nastinesses that get attributed to me because I think the EU is a bullying Leviathon. I think we have handled the negotiations terribly. Other politicians could have done a better job at negotiating with the EU instead of pandering to them. All the political parties are pretty weak at the moment, at a time when we needed strong leadership.
Trev:
I worry that the price of Brexit is simply a dismantling of the United Kingdom. The real world price of Britain leaving the EU, in my view, is that the UK will be dismantled. Ireland will reunify (I can't see any other solution to the "Backstop" issue) and stay in the EU. Scotland will then be left with a choice between the UK and the EU, and politically I think Scotland is more aligned with the EU. Andrew is probably right that "all will be fine". Relatively speaking, I do think there are bigger issues to worry about. It just makes me sad. I certainly feel that the first few sparks of seeing Britain as an "X years sober" alcoholic are at real risk of quite a few years of falling off the wagon. I am positive. I do think we can sober up again. It just didn't need to be this hard.
More Than a Whisper
Alex:
The way you pitch it is as if the primary reason behind Brexit was closing the borders. You and I have very similar beliefs. We both want this "Rome" with an open society that is inclusive. We both believe in Freedom of Trade, Movement, Services, and People. I didn't see the Referendum as anything other than a vote of no confidence in the INSTITUTION of the EU. Not Europe. Britain can't physically leave Europe. It is a part of it. All the crying and gnashing of teeth makes out as if all Brexiteers are racists and xenophobes. What about the European border in Ceuta? You can't paint the EU as this Liberal Democracy. I was voting against a Brussels run by technocrats.
Paul:
I didn't actually think the vote would go through. I have just been a Eurosceptic for years. I was undecided when I stepped into the voting booth, but I didn't feel it would be right to moan about the EU and then vote for them. I have business in Europe, but the European regulations make my life an absolute nightmare. I prefer hiring Brits. I really didn't think Brexit would actually happen, and even when it did, I didn't think there wouldn't be some sort of deal that allowed life to carry on pretty much as normal. It doesn't make sense for anybody for us to not be able to keep on doing what we do. Anyway, if things don't work out, I am okay. I'll just close up shop and go traveling.
Stewart:
I don't really follow all this nonsense. I have my own stuff to worry about. There is no point in worrying anyway. The people in London will do what they do and life will go on. It is not going to affect me. I voted for Brexit because the NHS is creaking at the seams with all the immigrants in the waiting rooms, and the jobs going to people who aren't even from here. Look after your own first I say. Don't have guests until you can afford to keep your house in order. You have to choose. If you want to have a Welfare State that looks after people, it is simple maths that you can't afford to look after everybody else too. Get rid of that stuff, and then sure... people who can afford to look after themselves are welcome to come.
Angela:
The reality is we are a small island. Environmentally, we can't afford to have more people here. 60 million plus is probably too many already. There aren't enough houses, which is why housing is unaffordable for the people who were born here. I am all for being accommodating to others, but there is the question of sustainability. The roads are clogged. The trains are clogged. The Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty are being filled with new housing that doesn't have the necessary schools and facilities. We may be a rich country in theory, but there are lots of problems we need to sort out. Leaving the EU is the only way we can do that.
Michelle:
There are fundamental political differences between the UK and the EU. You either believe in central decision-making technocrats, or you believe in devolved responsibility. In the UK, you hire and fire your political representatives directly. I can meet with my Member of Parliament, and it doesn't matter how much of a big wig they are, they have to serve their constituency. Nigel Farage certainly doesn't represent my views, and I resent being associated with him because I am against the EU. There is some irony that he has never ever won a seat in the UK, and his voice has been handed to him by Europe. Nigel is not the voice of Leave.
Trev:
The problem I have with these views is that they are mostly ideological. Much like my "I don't believe in Passports". The problem is Passports are a real thing. It doesn't matter if I believe in them or not. At the end of the day, I have to use them to move around. I am a deep pragmatist. What we do matters. Results matter. Yes, beliefs matter, but in the real world, we have to work with other people. The EU may have chosen Proportional Representation over "First Past The Post" seats. That has advantages and disadvantages. South Africa made the same choice. The inability of minority parties to get a voice in the UK is one of the disadvantages. Sustainability, Resource Allocation, and Regulatory Simplicity are all important... but we can't just vote for everyone to agree with us. The EU is much more likely to reform from within. It is better with the UK in it.
Andrew:
I have severe Brexit Fatigue. There are more important issues that which club different Rich countries belong or don't belong to. "Meanwhile in China" the world is carrying on while the Government of the UK grinds to a halt in this big talk shop. Whatever happens, won't change that much anyway. Like the Y2K "Crisis", the Global Financial "Crisis", the news always needs some Armageddon event to keep it entertained. Proper Crises like the World Wars, the resulting global flu pandemics, and the starvations in China and (now) Venezuela are proper things worth worrying about. Not how long it takes to fill in some bloody forms so you can sell your stuff or have to put another sticker on it. Britain "exiting" Europe is like a divorce where the spouses stay living in the same house. It's ridiculous, and we talk about it too much.
Alex:
I would probably change my vote now. I still believe I voted in good conscience the specific question that was asked. I wanted to leave the EU. I didn't want to end Freedom of Movement or any of the other nastinesses that get attributed to me because I think the EU is a bullying Leviathon. I think we have handled the negotiations terribly. Other politicians could have done a better job at negotiating with the EU instead of pandering to them. All the political parties are pretty weak at the moment, at a time when we needed strong leadership.
Trev:
I worry that the price of Brexit is simply a dismantling of the United Kingdom. The real world price of Britain leaving the EU, in my view, is that the UK will be dismantled. Ireland will reunify (I can't see any other solution to the "Backstop" issue) and stay in the EU. Scotland will then be left with a choice between the UK and the EU, and politically I think Scotland is more aligned with the EU. Andrew is probably right that "all will be fine". Relatively speaking, I do think there are bigger issues to worry about. It just makes me sad. I certainly feel that the first few sparks of seeing Britain as an "X years sober" alcoholic are at real risk of quite a few years of falling off the wagon. I am positive. I do think we can sober up again. It just didn't need to be this hard.
[Alex, Paul, Angela, Stewart, Michelle and Andrew are fictional]
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